Lost Season 5 – Epis. 10 & 11: He’s Our You & Whatever Happened, Happened

April 2, 2009 by  
Filed under Lost Season 5

Previously on Lost: Ben was sweating The Others even as a kid. Sayid worked for Ben when he was off the island, killing people he believed worked for Widmore. Back on the island, Sayid is captured by the Dharma Initiative. Young Ben befriends Sayid.

And now…

Tikrit, Iraq – As a boy, Sayid killed chickens without flinching. He makes his fat friend look like a pussy.

On the island – Young Ben brings Sayid more food and a book. (A Separate Reality by Carlos Castaneda) Ben wants to know if Richard sent Sayid. He says when he ran away four years ago, Richard told him to be patient and he could join them. He tells Sayid that if he’s patient too, he can help him.

When he was off the island, Sayid kills a man from Widmore’s organization. Ben tells him that he has killed them all and he’s free to go live his life.

Back on the island, Horace comes to see Sayid, but Sayid ain’t talking. He gives Sayid an hour to change his mind or they’re taking it to the next level. Oooh.

From their happy home, Juliet and Sawyer watch Kate and Jack from the window. She worries that life as they know it will be over once Sayid opens his mouth. Sawyer says that Sayid won’t blab. Horace comes over and says that Sayid ain’t talking and they’re gonna be forced to sic Oldham on Sayid. Sawyer wants a shot at him.

Sawyer goes to see Sayid alone, ordering the guard to leave. Sayid wants to know how Sawyer can live with a mini-Ben Linus. Sawyer says they have no choice. Sawyer tells Sayid that he’s lucky he spent the last three years getting himself into a position to help him now. He strikes Sayid and says they need to pretend he was interrogated and that Sayid needs to say he wants to defect from The Others. Sayid refuses.

Hurley is a cook on the island. Go figure. He joins Jack and Kate for breakfast. Kate and Hurley can’t believe Sawyer didn’t give up any info on a plan. Hurley breaks the news to Kate that Juliet and Sawyer are together-together. Like bumping uglies together.

Ben’s father, Roger the janitor, comes to clean up outside of Sayid’s cell. He wonders aloud how Sayid got caught. He figures that Sayid must be pretty dumb. Sayid is all, “At least I’m not a janitor.” Ben shows up with a sandwich and plays like it’s for his Daddy. Roger goes all Daddy Dearest on him ’cause he knows the sandwich is for Sayid.

Girls with Daddy issues end up on the pole. Boys with Daddy issues end up lying, psychopathic, murderers.

Girls with Daddy issues end up on the pole. Boys with Daddy issues end up lying, psychopathic, murderers.

Off the island, in Santo Domingo, Ben comes to see Sayid. He tells Sayid that John Locke is dead, probably murdered… ’cause you killed him, bastard! He tells Sayid that he might be in danger and that men are watching Hurley too. Sayid realizes that Ben wants him to kill the men watching Hurley. Sayid insists he doesn’t like killing.

I wonder how many houses for the poor you have to build to make up for dozens of murders.

I wonder how many houses for the poor you have to build to make up for dozens of murders.

Sawyer and the others come for Sayid and tazer him. I love a good tazin’, but not on Sayid! They take him to Oldham; a rednecky old coot. Sawyer tells Sayid, “He’s our you.” They tie Sayid to a tree and Oldham forces him to swallow a cube of sugar with some liquid on it. Oldham tells Sayid that no matter what, he will tell them the truth.

Sawyer shits his pants.

Ruh-roh

Ruh-roh

Off the island, at the marina, Sayid is pissed when he realizes that he, Sun, Kate, and Jack have gathered with Ben to discuss going back to the island. “If I see you again,” he tells Ben, “it will be unpleasant for us both.”

At a hotel bar, Sayid downs scotch that’s $120 bucks a glass. Damn. Murder pays well. Elana is seated at the bar too and starts coming on to him. He buys her a glass of the scotch. Yeah, murder pays real well.

On the island, the questioning begins. Sayid answers the questions honestly. He was in handcuffs on the plane because he’s a bad man. He tells them he has returned to the island. He tells them about the first crash. He also tells them what he knows about all the stations. That freaks Radzinski the hell out. Sayid then tells them that they are all going to die. When he tells them he’s from the future they think Oldham used too much of the drug.

Juliet shows Kate around the garage where they work on the vans. Juliet is relieved that Hurley told Kate about her and Sawyer because if she had done it, she knew it would sound like she was telling Kate to stay away. Which we all know is what she wants to say.

"I'm smiling, but I hate you." "Yeah. Me too."

"I'm smiling, but I hate you." "Yeah. Me too."

They then watch as Sawyer and crew lead Sayid back to his cell.

lostsayidincuffs

Sawyer notices Juliet and Kate talking.

Your ex talking to your new girlfriend NEVER ends well.

Your ex talking to your new girlfriend NEVER ends well.

The DI peeps have a come to Jesus meeting and Radzinski pushes for Sayid to be killed. Sawyer wants to talk to Sayid again, but Radzinski smells blood. He says they need to make a decision or he will call Ann Arbor and they will make it for them. Another reason I won’t take my black ass to Michigan. Amy pushes for the vote. She won’t feel safe with Sayid around. They vote and everyone, including Sawyer, vote to kill Sayid.

Sawyer, say it ain’t so!

Off the island, Sayid and Elana are about to get down and dirty in a hotel room. She suddenly starts beating his ass and pulls a gun on him. She was hired to bring him to Guam to answer for killing the guy on the golf course.

Back on the island, Sawyer goes to see Sayid again and tells him that they’re coming to kill him. Again Sayid refuses Sawyer’s plan to escape. Sayid says that he realizes he has a purpose for being back on the island. Frustrated, Sawyer leaves. He goes to see Kate. He wants to know why they came back to the island. She says she only knows why she came back. Before she can say, “I came back for your fine ass,” a van on fire plows into a house.

Kate  helps people escape from the house while Sawyer rushes to get the hoses going. Sawyer tells Jack that the trouble only started when they brought their asses back.

"This is probably my fault, so helping is the least I could do."

"This is probably my fault, so helping is the least I could do."

While this is going on, young Ben sneaks to see Sayid. He asks Sayid, “If I let you go, will you take me with you? To your people?” Sayid tells him yes.

Off the island, as Elana escorts Sayid through the airport, he notices Hurley, Kate, and Jack. He wants to take another plane, but Elana ain’t having it. Sayid sees Sun and knows shit ain’t right. He knows shit really ain’t right when he sees Ben. He asks Elana if she’s working for Benjamin Linus. She wants to know who Ben is. Sayid says he’s a monster, liar, etc. She wants to know why she’d work for someone like that. Sayid admits that he worked for Ben.

On the island, Sayid and Ben are running through the woods when they come across Jin in a van.

lostjininvan

Sayid tells Jin that Sawyer let him go. Jin wants to call and check on this before letting Sayid go on, but Sayid knocks him out before he can. He then takes Jin’s gun and shoots Ben.

Damn, he was right. That was unpleasant.

He shoulda shot his ass more than once!

Whatever Happened, Happened

Previously on Lost: Sawyer finds out he has a daughter named Clementine. Kate, before ending up on the island the first time, encounters Sawyer’s baby mama. Kate pretends to be Aaron’s mother after leaving the island. She is threatened by someone who knows Aaron isn’t hers. Young Ben lets Sayid escape and gets a cap in his ass for his efforts.

And now…

Jin comes to and tells the DI people that Sayid is headed north. He then discovers that Ben is shot and puts him in the van. What? Let that little bastard die! And did he give up Sayid’s true direction?

Back at the DI camp, Horace says that someone must have set the fire to help Sayid escape. Jack is like, “How you know that?” And Horace pretty much tells him to shut up, newbie.

Kate helps Ben’s father, Roger, move the burnt out van from the house. She realizes that he’s Ben’s father. Jin shows up with an injured Ben. Roger freaks out.

Off the island, Kate takes Aaron to see Sawyer’s baby mama. She wants to know why Kate trusted her with the secret that Sawyer is still alive. She tells Kate that Sawyer is a coward. She also figures out that Kate isn’t Aaron’s Mommy.

Back on the island, Sawyer is looking at the surveillance cameras. Kate shows up and Sawyer tells Kate to scram before she messes everything up. Sure enough, Horace and crew shows up and Saywer acts like he was questioning Kate.

"You tryna get us killed, Freckles?"

"You tryna get us killed, Freckles?"

They realize that someone with janitor keys let Sayid out. There are only three janitors; some guy, Roger, and Jack. Sawyer and Miles leave to question Jack.

Sawyer tells Miles to get Jack, Kate, and Hurley and put them in a house and watch them. He goes to see how Ben is and realizes that Roger doesn’t have his janitor keys. Juliet tells Sawyer that she needs a real surgeon to stop Ben’s bleeding.

At the house, Miles tells Hurley, Jack, and Kate that Ben won’t die because he lived to be an adult. Sawyer shows up and says they need Jack, and if he doesn’t come, Ben will die. Jack refuses.

"Is you crazy? I'm not saving his little ass!"

"Is you crazy? I'm not saving his little ass!"

Later, Kate can’t believe Jack won’t save Ben. Jack says that he already saved Ben for Kate’s ass once, and he ain’t doing it again. Jack thinks that the island might just want to work shit out for itself. Kate doesn’t like the new Jack. Jack says you didn’t like the old Jack.

Kate goes to donate blood for Ben. She tells Juliet that she and Jack were engaged off the island after Juliet expresses confusion over Jack’s unwillingness to help Ben. Roger comes in and sits with Kate while Juliet checks on Ben.

Roger admits that Ben stole his keys to bust out Sayid because of him. Roger confides in Kate  how Ben’s mother died. Then Ben goes into shock.

Back at the house, Hurley has a hard time wrapping his brain around the fact that everything that is happening now, already happened. Miles keeps calling Hurley names.

"Call me stupid one mo' 'gain."

"Call me stupid one mo' 'gain."

Miles explains that when Ben turned the wheel time is no longer on a straight line. What follows is a bunch of time-travel mumbo jumbo that gives me a headache. Hurley does succeed in stumping Miles. He wants to know if everything has already happened, how come Ben doesn’t remember being shot by Sayid when he first meets him after the Oceanic crash. (Just like I wanted to know why Daniel didn’t remember telling Charlotte never to return to the island.)

"Dude, the most important thing to remember is to never, ever, cross the streams."

"Dude, the most important thing to remember is to never, ever, cross the streams."

Juliet tells Kate that Ben will die and Kate says they can’t let that happen. Juliet says that maybe there’s something The Others can do. Oooh, does this mean we get to see Richard’s fine ass? Please say yes.

Juliet and Kate sneak Ben into a van. Kate doesn’t want Juliet going with her. Juliet tells her that when Sawyer finds out, she will give Kate a head start.

Off the island, at the marina, Kate is pissed when she realizes they met with Ben to discuss going back to the island. She leaves with Aaron. They go to a supermarket because he’s thirsty. When Jack calls Kate on her cell, she takes her eyes off of Aaron briefly and he disappears. I would so beat Donny’s ass. She finds him with a woman that says she was taking Aaron for help.

On the island, Kate makes it to the security pylons when Sawyer shows up. He says he’s not there to stop her, he’s there to help her. And he calls her Freckles!!

Off the island, Kate goes back to Sawyer’s baby mama. Clementine calls her Auntie Kate. She tells the baby mama that Jack and the others want to go back. She also tells baby mama that as scared as she was when Aaron went missing, she also expected it. Baby mama tells Kate that Sawyer broke her heart so she took Aaron to fix it.

On the island, Sawyer disables the pylons. Sawyer says he is helping Ben for Juliet because she said that no matter what Ben grows up to be, it’s wrong to let a kid die. Sheeeit.

Juliet busts into the house and wants to see Jack who is in the shower. She makes Miles and Hurley leave. She confronts Jack for not helping Ben. Juliet says that Sawyer and Kate actually care and he doesn’t. He says that he cares, that’s why he came back. To save her. She says she didn’t need saving. She’s been playing house with Sawyer, and likes it! He says he came back because he was supposed to, but he doesn’t know why yet.

Sawyer and Kate carry Ben through the jungle. She tells Sawyer about Clementine. Sawyer tells Kate that they would have never worked out. He wasn’t fit to be her man or a Dad. Kate points out that he seems to be doing fine with Juliet. He says he’s grown up a lot in three years.

The Others show up and Sawyer tells them that they need to take Ben to Richard.

Off the island, Kate goes to see Clare’s mother. She tells her that Aaron is her grandson and that Clare is alive. Kate admits that she didn’t say anything sooner because she needed Aaron. Kate says that she told Aaron she’s his grandmother and that she will take care of him. Kate is going back to the island to find Clare.

As Kate cries over Aaron while he sleeps, I’m about to lose my shit… until Donny says, “It took her three years to feel like shit?”

Way to ruin the moment!

On the island, Sawyer brings Ben to Richard… who seems to appear out of nowhere. He also appears to still be young and sexy.

Still young and STILL sexy.

Still young and STILL sexy.

Kate asks if Richard can save Ben’s life. Richard kinda looks at Kate like he wants to eat her. Lucky girl. Richard says that if he takes Ben, he will never be the same. He won’t remember what happened, his innocence will be gone, and Ben will always be one of them.

Creepy.

“You still want me to take him?”

Kate says, “Yes.”

An other says that they need to ask Ellie (Daniel’s Mom?), and worries what will happen if Charles (Widmore) finds out… Damn, he looks like a young, and HOT, eyepatch guy. Richard says he doesn’t answer to either of them. Richard leaves with Ben and takes him to the temple where the smoke monster lives.

Older, current, Ben wakes up to find John staring at him.

"Ben, you got some 'splainin' to do!"

"Ben, you got some 'splainin' to do!"

Next week looks kickass!

 

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1. Why was Sayid wearing a purple undershirt? Why?!

2. I'm really digging Jack's new hair cut/style.

3. John Locke and Ben next week! Yessss!

4. Desmond? *blink blink*

:D

I suspect that Ben's comeuppance is going to be THE SHIT!

Here are my random thoughts about the last two episodes. And I've got a lot of 'em...

- "Sayid kills a man from Widmore’s organization:... Not quite. Sayid killed a man whom Ben CLAIMS is from Widmore's organization, as has all the people Sayid has killed while in Ben's employ. That's a key distinction. Let's call it like it is here - if Ben really wanted to utilize Sayid effectively, why not just have him go after Widmore himself? We know Ben can get to Widmore. He walked into the man's office himself. So Sayid should be able to do the same and kill him. Whether Sayid survives or not, the majority of Ben's problems would be over if Widmore is dead. I'm willing to accept that there are certain rules (which Ben alluded to when his daughter was murdered by Widmore's mercenary) that do not allow Ben and Widmore to go after each other directly. But nevertheless, there's more to Ben's hitlist than that these people Sayid has been whacking than just that they work for Widmore, IMHO.

- I have a theory about the Dharma people and the Others now revolving around the Egyptian statues and temple: Dharma Initiative is essentially a modern-day scientific cult of Horus (Horace), though not quite so blatant as that. The Others are a cult of Anubis, the Egyptian god of death. The ankh necklace Horace picked up in a previous episode, the hieroglyphics on the clock at the Desmond's old station, the temples, the statue, Horace's name... they're all clues, in a way.

- Here's what I really don't get about Radzinsky and the DI group meeting in which it was voted that Sayid should be killed because he MUST be an Other: WHY MUST HE BE AN OTHER? I can't believe it never occurred to Sawyer to just say "Me and my people weren't Others when we came here three years ago. We're living proof that not everybody on this island HAS to be either us or them. So pull your head out of your ass and consider the possibility that you could be wrong." But no, he just went along with the posse. Stupid, Sawyer. Real stupid. You could've saved Sayid just that easy. Radzinsky might be a narrow-minded prick, but Horace would've considered that much, at least. After all, he did for YOU, "LaFluer".

- And as much as I respect that Sawyer has done a lot of maturing in the last three years and has become more of a thinker than a reactionary, I also find it rude that Sawyer's been stringing Jack, Kate, and Hurley along without taking the time to share a little more info about what DI is all about, what he's been doing the last three years, what he has planned, and so on. But noooooo, Sawyer always has to be like "Just shut up and roll with me" and keep everybody in the dark until it's convenient for him to explain shit when he feels like it. Fuck you, James. How about sharing with the rest of the class instead of trying to make yourself look like The Man With The Plan at every turn? You're not alone anymore, so quit acting like it. You know who else insists on playing his cards close to the vest like that? Ben. Don't be that guy.

- Also rude on Sawyer's part - Was it REALLY necessary for you to taze Sayid in the balls? Goddamn! Maybe it's because I always start drinking on Wednesday nights right before LOST starts, but I swear at that moment, I said out loud in my best Arabic accent: "Don't tase me, bro!" :)

- One other point, were there really tasers and closed-circuit cameras (the camera in Sayid's cell is modern-day tiny) that small back in 1977? Although I was one-year old at the time, as far as I know, there weren't. I still love you, LOST, but you fucked those details up.

- I fucking love that Oldham was the mayor from "Deadwood", the sheriff from "True Blood", and going back even further, Larry from "The Bob Newhart Show". "I'm Larry. This is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother Darryl." I also loved that Sayid knew while under the sodium pentothol that he could be as honest as he could be and who the fuck would believe any of it if they haven't already done time-jumping themselves? I'd have cracked up laughing too and enjoyed the high, just like Sayid was doing. Sawyer was wrong about Oldman being Dharma's Sayid though. Apparently Sawyer forgot that Sayid doesn't get people high and ask questions; Sayid sticks fuckin' bamboo shoots up people's fingernails (like he did to Sawyer) and DEMANDS answers. Sayid don't fuck around.

- Did anyone else notice Sayid was drinking the same brand of whiskey (McCutcheon) that Widmore enjoys in his office and would not share with Desmond? I did. Coincidence? Maybe... or maybe not.

- You're a bit off though with the "murder pays" comment, Nina. Ben never had to pay Sayid for those murders. Sayid, like the rest of the O6, is quite independently wealthy at that point because of his Oceanic settlement. Sayid killed because he was seeking vengeance for his beloved Nadia's murder. Like I said before, Ben just happened to have a list of people HE claims was involved.

- Also, we don't have to assume that EVERYBODY is connected to the island somehow. Regardless of what the rich guy may have done on the side (working for Widmore? Maybe... maybe not). Maybe Elana is really just a bounty hunter like she said because Sayid killed a rich guy, and rich people don't like being killed. It fucks with their summer plans in The Hamptons.

- I originally thought that The Others helped Ben with that van-fire distraction, but now I'm thinking maybe Lil Ben just set fire to that van, set it in drive, and then went off to rescue Sayid all by himself. Ben IS that type of kid, isn't he? One thing we know about Ben - he's a badass (even as a kid) and he doesn't like DI vans (he killed his own dad in one and left the body in the van and left the van in the jungle when he could've just kicked his pop's body out of the van and driven it back himself).

- Once again, Sawyer proves himself a factitious asshole by snapping at Jack about shit not going down until they came back. If Sawyer had been paying any attention the last few months of his life prior to becoming LaFluer, he'd remember that shit was going to go down at some point either way. That's kind of the way all this timeline stuff works, ya dig?

- Sayid only shooting Ben once: Yeah, that was just sloppy and he should have known better. Not that it would have mattered anyway though.

- Nina, I'ma' tell you like Miles told Hurley (but without being a dick about it): The reason Daniel doesn't remember telling Charlotte to stay off the island is because he hasn't told her yet in HIS timeline. At some point, we will still see Daniel telling young Charlotte this; but for him, it hasn't happened YET. So of course, he doesn't remember it. Soon, when we get to an episode that explains where Daniel has been while the rest of the crew are enjoying Dharmaville, we'll see his convo with young Charlotte. Count on it.

- And while we're on the subject, I fucking love that Sayid is a big part of the reason Ben became what he has become later in his life, to some extent. Hurley was right to ask why is it that Ben didn't recognize Sayid right off the bat? That was my second though when Sayid shot Little Ben too (the first being "Holy shit! I can't believe they showed a kid getting shot like that point blank on prime time! Damn, LOST don't fuckin' play!"). But we have to remember two things - A) Michael Emerson is an AWESOME actor. And 2) like I said before, Ben plays EVERYTHING close to the vest. It would be a trip to re-watch those early episodes when the 816ers capture and torture "Henry Gale" and realize that Ben is looking at Sayid like "I know who you are. You shot me when I was a child. And eventually I'm going to make you pay for it" right from jump.

- In case anybody else hasn't figured it out yet, the reason Ben and The Others had detailed files on the crashed 816'ers from the very beginning is because most of those same 816'ers used to be (from The Others' perspective) Dharma people in the 70's. Hell, those were probably Sawyer/LaFleur's own security files!

- This may be a coincidence, but I had a thought when Roger told Kate that Ben's mother died in childbirth. How does a schlub like Roger get recruited by Dharma anyway? Could Ben's mother have been on the island before too? Maybe Ben was born on the island (hence his mother dying in childbirth), and that's the ONLY reason Roger got that job. It does seem like the only kids on the island were either born there or crashed there. It doesn't make sense to me that Dharma would hire a single father who had to bring his kid along unless there was something special about Ben right from birth. It's just a theory, but...

- Despite what I said earlier about not everybody having to be from the island, I don't think for a second that we won't be seeing that blonde woman who was trying to walk off with Aaron in the grocery store. They lingered on her for a reason. Maybe she's a Widmore operative? Plausible considering Widmore had Hurley and Sayid watched too, so it stands to reason that he also had Jack, Kate, and Sun watched as well. My suspicion is that the blonde was the Widmore operative watching Kate and biding her time for a chance to fuck things up.

- WTF, Kate?! You just walked right through the sonic fence with bloody Lil Ben without checking to see if the damn thing was turned off first! Sure, Sawyer probably turned it off in time before he left to join her, but SHE didn't know that! I'm deaf and the sonic fence probably wouldn't work on me anyway, but I'd STILL check first! You pretty but dumb, Freckles.

- Regardless, good on Kate for being honest with Claire's mother about Claire and Aaron and everything she could without sounding TOO crazy. No offense to Donny, but I think she was just crying because she was giving up the little boy she's been raising for the last three years as her own. That would be hard for anybody.

- I think I've mentioned this before, but I have another theory that The Others in the 70's and before that are all crew from The Black Rock ship. I suspect that Richard is the former captain of the ship; or the first mate, if the mysterious Jacob was the captain.

- Speaking of Jacob, some info was leaked online recently about him. We'll be seeing him in the flesh (so to speak) real soon... but as it turns out, he's been in the background off the island in the current timeline far more than most of us realize. Anybody watch the first season of "Dexter"? That's all I'm saying about that right now.

- Also; older Charlotte will return. Just don't call her "Old Charlotte". The actress who plays her made a huge public stink on her own Facebook profile recently because the LOST team made a huge glaring error recently about Charlotte's age. According to the episode in which she died, she was over 40, which contradicts what was said about her in a previous episode being in her 30's. The actress didn't like that because women apparently don't like it when they're referred to as being older than they really are. :)

I always have to make notes before I reply to your comments! Let me see how much I can get done.

- The reason I say that the guy worked for Widmore's organization is because I'm recapping what they're shown us. I save speculation and theories for the funny parts and in comments.

- Weren't Sawyer and the rest supposed to be looking for their friends three years prior? He could have just said that Sayid was his friend who must have escaped/been brainwashed to forget/amnesiac.. from The Others. Then again, Sayid wasn't tryna go along with any plan.

- The people on this show have a bad habit of not sharing information when they should.

- Did I suggest that Elana has a tie to the island? I didn't mean to. I believe that she is just what she says she is, though you could argue that if she was hired by the family of someone tied to Widmore and/or the island, then she has a tie to the island w/o knowing it. But I think she was just wrong place/wrong time.

- In a previous episode we see Ben's birth, and his mother's death, and it was off the island. It seems that Roger went to the island to get away after losing his wife. He also seems to be much nicer before that. I think, we're supposed to assume, that the way he treats Ben is based on blame for losing the wife he loved so much.

- I don't think they had files on the 815 survivors because they were there in the 70's. They had info on Walt and Michael too, and they're not there in the 70's. They showed us in the Goodwin flashbacks that he and Ethan had given Ben a list of names and they used their off-island resources to get info on those on the island. That's how they found out Jack was a surgeon.

- Yeah, I assumed from the get go that Ben set the van ablaze.

Yeah, I tend to ramble on, I know. :)

When I say stuff like "You better believe..." or the like, I don't mean to say I thought YOU specifically had a counter-opinion, Nina. That's just my figure of speech for throwing it out there on your wall so we can see if it sticks later - seeing as how it's your blog and I enjoy discussing LOST with you where I can vent my secret guilty-pleasure obsession with this damn show.

Re: Sawyer and Sayid: Yeah, they really could have played that out a hell of a lot less dramatically with a little more communication. Maybe Sawyer just didn't try that hard since his fingertips have been sore the whole time he's been stuck on the island after that bamboo-shoot torture Sayid gave him way back when and he just feels like being a prick now. Ah well. If they'd done the smart thing and just explained Sayid's appearance on the island with another concocted stranded castaway story or something, we might not've gotten to see Lil Ben get close to Sayid and the subsequent attempted child murder.

Jesus, that sounds wrong just typing it out.

Re: Not sharing information - Agreed. But then, that's when they have secrets to keep. One would think that filling in the blanks for Jack, Kate, and Hurley (The Double Crash Crew) wouldn't be THAT damn difficult for Sawyer, Jin, Miles, or Juliet (The Left Behinds) to do at some point. Granted, maybe they *have* done so in some quiet moment when we aren't watching them... but things have moved along at a pretty rapid pace since Double Crash Crew met up with the Left Behinds in '77.

I'm making them sound like they're from West Side Story or something now. :)

Re: Ben's birth - Have we seen that? Oh right, I'd forgotten about that. My mistake. Are you completely sure it happened off-island? Or that they didn't come from the island just prior to Ben's birth? I don't recall the scene very well. I just vaguely remember Uncle Rico. :)

Re: The Others' files on the 815'ers - Perhaps, but I'm fairly accepting of the idea that Ben was well-prepared and knew whom most of those 815'ers were because he had plenty of long cozy chats with Richard and Jacob about them. And barring any wacky time-disruption spiel, he must have remembered Sayid VERY well. With such detailed files, he must have already known what they looked like prior to meeting them. So the look in his eyes when he finally saw them again face-to-face as Henry Gale... I totally believe that Michael Emerson is so good an actor, I can completely buy all that even if it wasn't originally written that way.

What do you think about the potential for re-watching this show once it's over taking on a whole new vibe the second time around now that we know (in theory) that Ben knows and remembers damn well who he's meeting when he encounters the 815'ers as an adult (along with his obsession with Juliet now making so much more sense)? I'm actually looking forward to watching the whole series all over again when it's done... provided they don't horribly fuck things up between now and the end.

I like your rambles!

One of the biggest things that annoyed me was Locke's frustration with people (Jack) not believing that the island was special, but not telling them that he couldn't walk before getting there! Same with Rose and her cancer.

I'm pretty sure that Ben's birth was off island and I THINK he was born in a car on the side of the road. I distinctly remember Ben and his Dad arriving like we saw the other new recruits in the episode Namaste. I also remember there being a big difference in his father from when we saw him driving with the wife. Ben was already a small child when they got there.

I started watching the show again last year, from the beginning, and making notes. In fact, if you look at the archives at this site starting in September of 2005, you'll see them. I purposely dated them that far back so they'd be separate.

That's very true. But on the other hand, Jack - being the definitive "Man of Science" - probably wouldn't have believed him anyway. He hasn't actually seen any evidence of resurrection or supernatural healing on the island yet... unlike Locke, who has already broken Jesus' record at this point.

With 1976 Jack electing not to perform surgery on young Ben he probably caused the spinal mass on Ben's back that 2005 Jack removed a couple of seasons ago.

The best part was Miles trying to explain the time thing. Took me a while to understand it a little more than I initially did.

Yeah, I got it after watching it a second time. It's like me being born in 1974 and growing up to time travel. I can go back to 1977 as a 34 year old and my 3 year old self will be there going on to live the life I led to get me to 34. I won't remember being in the 70's as an adult because it hadn't happened yet. The interesting question is, if I killed 3 year old self (like Sayid shot Ben) does that make current 34 year old me in 1977 disappear because 3 year old me never grew up to do the things that put me back in 1977.

I think the idea is that you *can't* kill your 3 year old self. Since you are currently 34, you obviously didn't die when you were 3, and you can't change the past. If you tried to shoot your younger self, the gun would jam, or you would just miraculously heal from your wound, or you would be saved by mystical island dwellers who would later erase your memory. Kind of like how back in episode 8 of season 4 when Michael was off the island and tried to kill himself, but the "island wouldn't let him".

You would create a time paradox by doing that and according to Back to the Future's Dr. Emmett Brown the universe would explode. Please don't blow up the universe. Reminds me of the Futurama episode where Fry went back in time and became his own grandfather.

Oh Lordie...way too much spinning around in my head!

1. I guess I'll start with Sayid shooting lil Ben. Sayid obviously doesn't understand the whole time shifting thing on the island, because he is of the new found belief that his purpose for being back on the island is to kill lil Ben before he can grow up to be maniacal adult Ben. But we know that lil Ben can't die, because what happened, happened and lil Ben did in fact grow up to be crazyass Ben that we know and love. Believing he must kill lil Ben, Sayid shoots his ass first chance he gets and leaves him for dead.

This leads us to Hurley and Miles' mindnumbing conversation (best Hurley convo by far!) with Hurley ultimately stumping Miles about Ben not remembering Sayid when they met after the first plane crash. I am wondering if Ben DID end up eventually remembering this...just like Desmond (where IS he??) eventually having a memory of Daniel telling him to find his mother. Ben did not time jump to 1977 with those that did, so what happened, happened right? What's happening in 1977 is happening for the first time to those that jumped back there, but not for those who did not. Therefore, once Sayid shot Ben it became a part of present day Ben's history, right? Or am I crazy? I mean, Desmond did not time jump since he was not on the island during all that, but he eventually had that Daniel memory...So, I think the reason Ben knew everything about the 815 survivors is because he remembered them from childhood and was able to gather tons of information and files on the survivors knowing he would need it at some point.

Oh, and a friend of mine thinks lil Ben being shot has something to do with adult Ben's spine tumor...I don't see how that adds up though.

2. Jack has changed so much. Three years ago Jack would never let a kid or anybody else for that matter, die no matter what. Now he's all, "Ben can kiss my ass!". Now, seasons of this show focused on the struggle between Jack and Locke - man of science, man of faith. Jack seems to be now struggling with himself...he's becoming a man of faith, as Locke has pushed for all along. He is unsure what his purpose of coming back to the island is, but he came back nonetheless. He wouldn't save lil Ben because "the island will take care of it". Granted, that sounded somewhat sarcastic, but I still think he's faltering in his scientific belief (how could he not!?) and is tempting fate to see just what happens to lil Ben, since he knows he doesn't die.

Remember that Jack's father, Christian, seems to have something to do with all of this. As much as parts of me believe the "Jacob's vessel" logic, I think there's much more to it than that. Why else would Claire, Christian's other kid, disappear way back when and show up hanging in the cabin with Christian, happy as can be and totally in the know? The Shepherds are special. This would mean Aaron, as well. There's more to their story. Jack not helping Ben this time makes me further believe that. Christian told Locke that Locke was supposed to turn the wheel the first time, NOT BEN. There is something going on with the island powers that be and Ben. And the island powers that be have Shepherds running around in there.

3. So the O5 coming back to the island were directly responsible for lil Ben growing up to be crazyass Ben. Sawyer and Kate handing him over to The Others to be healed sealed their fate. What does this mean? And if my theory about big Ben remembering Sayid shooting his ass eventually is correct, then big Ben would ultimately remember that Kate and Sayid saved his life by bringing him to The Others. Hmmm... I am probably totally off on all of that remembering crap, because I barely understand this time jumping stuff! ;)

But I am confused about something: I thought Ellie and Charles were 1950's DI scouting the island for the DI's purposes. Did I just totally screw up and not pay attention to those scenes? Or were they always part of the islands "indigenous hostile people"? Or did they at some point join The Others? God help me...

PS - Sawyer finally calling Kate "Freckles" again made my heart jump! He's going to come around...he still has his feelings for her, especially now that he knows she did what he asked of her for Clementine.

PPS - Clementine's mom (what the hell is her name?) knows the truth. Will this eventually come into play? Kate could have just lied to her and said she met Sawyer on the plane and he told her about his daughter and now that he's about to die wishes he was in her life and provided for her, and that's why she is doing it. But instead, she spilled her guts to the mom. I can't believe that's not important.

Okay...I think I'm done...

1. I don't think Ben remembers, or will remember, because of what Richard said. He won't remember.

2. The Shepard clan could be special. We never knew why the psychic told Claire that she must raise the baby. Then, when he realized she was set on giving him up, he orchestrated her being on flight 815. What I want to know is, did he know that they would survive the crash. The way his powers worked was that he had to touch the person to see their future. It would stand to reason that at some point during the time Claire first saw him and when he began bugging her, he touched someone who was going to be on flight 815.

3. When Ellie and Charles were on the island in the 50's they were with The Others. Charles and the guy he killed were wearing the uniforms of the military men they killed. I don't think the DI were on the island in the 50's. I think what we were to take from that episode is that The Others have been on the island a very long time, it is most likely their island, and that through the decades they've been defending it against numerous visitors (military in the 50's, DI in the 70's, etc.)

Hi Vernsy. ;)

1. Consider that Sayid was in a degree of shock and remorse over the state of the situation he finds himself in - his beloved Nadia is dead now. He's been working for the fucking Devil (Ben) killing people for no other reason than Ben told him he should. He's back on the godforsaken island again. He's been tazed in the balls by Sawyer, who really hasn't been helping Sayid out as much as he could have if he'd just pointed out to his DI buddies that not EVERYBODY who ends up on the island is always an Other if they aren't DI... kind of like Sawyer himself. He's been bound and drugged by his former friends Sawyer and Jin, plus Asshole Radzinsky and "Larry sans his brothers Darryl" Oldman. And he's been saved by a kid who becomes the man he fucking hates with all his heart. That would probably keep anyone from thinking straight too.

"Therefore, once Sayid shot Ben it became a part of present day Ben’s history, right? Or am I crazy?"

You're not crazy. Sayid shooting Ben has to be something Ben ALWAYS remembered. We just didn't know it until now. Therefore, it happened LONG before the timeline of Season One when we meet Ben, aka "Henry Gale". So all that means we can rewatch LOST all over again knowing that Ben knows EXACTLY who each and every one of those 815'ers are. From Day Fucking One in Ben's perspective, Sayid has ALWAYS been the man that Ben once saved and whom shot him as a child. Sawyer was ALWAYS the guy who was once the head of security for DI. Jack was ALWAYS the doctor he'll need to convince to save him from his cancer (by kidnapping Kate). And so on... but the point being, he already knew ALL ALONG. We didn't yet, and neither did the 815'ers, but Ben knew. He's just really fucking sneaky like that. For all those times we've said to ourselves "Damn, that Ben is up to something..." This is EXACTLY what he's been up to all along. We just didn't know the scope of it until now. And of course, we still don't know the whole scope of it... but we're getting there.

Your friend's theory is interesting, BTW. I don't know if scar tissue could somehow cause a tumor... but between that and the radiation from the atomic bomb The Others live around, it's not out of the realm of possibility. I could roll with that theory. I think the cancer was more of the island's way of punishing Ben though - sort of like it was saying to him "Bitch, you belong to ME. You don't go walking around on me with your own agenda. Here, have some tasty painful cancer to remember that shit, yo."

2. I like your theory about Jack and the Shepherds. It makes sense to me. I think Jack's comment of letting the island take care of it was just Jack being tired of fighting the craziness of the island and everything that has happened with rationale and logic and just saying "Fuck it. I give up. Ben lives, Ben dies - either way, I don't give a fuck anymore. Not my problem anymore." I think it was a key this week to understanding Jack and Sawyer both when Jack said about saving Ben before, "I did it for you (Kate)", and Sawyer saying "I did it for her (Juliet)".

Ellie and Charles: Nina got that. They were Others, not DI. I know I was the one who posited the theory that The Others were potentially early DI scouts, but I think I was wrong about that. They've been on that island for a LONG LONG time - far longer than just the 1950's. But I think that's a major key plot point of how The Others have gotten new recruits of their own - people crash on that island. Either they end up doing their own thing if they can avoid capture or death (like Danielle Rousseau), or they end up becoming DI in a more non-traditional sense (as in not specifically recruited and brought to the island via submarine, like the 815'ers now in '77) or The Others get to them first. I suspect this is why The Others take it so seriously about maintaining a sort of balance. If one of their people is killed, they NEED a replacement so there is a specific number of Others. It's also why they kidnap any kids they can get as quickly as possible - to raise them to become Others.

In fact, don't be surprised if Richard demands that Paul's body had to be given to them because he intended to resurrect Paul and make him an Other (because as he makes clear to Kate about Lil Ben, that's how it works on the island. If the island resurrects you - and not in a ghostly Christian Shepherd kind of way, but a full on save-your-ass-from-a-bullet-like-Locke-kind-of-way - you give your soul up to the island and become an Other - a protector of the island... and maybe kinda sorta immortal like Richard, extra-strong like Ethan, and badass like... well, every damn Other we've seen so far. Which means we may see Paul again later. We never did see Paul's face a few episodes ago, did we?

Allow me to bust a wild theory here with little evidence behind it: Paul's last name? Goodwin. Remember the Other who infiltrated the Tailies and whom Ana Lucia killed? Juliet and Goodwin were lovers when she was an Other back when WE first meet her. But she only just showed up in 1977 with Sawyer, Jin, Miles, and Daniel when Paul was shot and killed by those two Others who were about to kill Paul's wife too. Juliet shot one of 'em (which doesn't affect the Others' ratio on the island because she was one of them already too); Sawyer shot the other Other. Consider this: She shot the man who shot her own past lover - Paul Goodwin. I'd have to check the episode again to see if his head was covered while Jin was carrying the body. But if it was covered.... this theory works.

Lastly: Sawyer's ex/Clementine's mother, and Claire's mom.... Yeah, Kate just went and blabbed to EVERYBODY about the O6's big secret before they went back to the island. I bet when Jack finds out, he's going to think "Goddamn, woman! You never listen to ANYBODY, and you can't keep a secret to save ANYBODY'S life. And you got problems with ME? Pffft. You pretty but dumb, Freckles." :)

Anyone else notice that the lady that had Aaron at the store looked just like Clare, but older?

Of course, and I think that was the point. I think that was Kate's final shove to "do the right thing"

I don't want this season to end. I am also glad that we found out what happened to Aaron.

Me too, but this also is a good of example of what I find annoying.

They made a big, hairy deal about what Sawyer whispered in Kate's ear. Her and Jack even got in this argument about it, and then it was just the kid thing? Why not just tell Jack that back in the real world?

Also, I am also annoyed at the lack of tension between Jack and Kate. Supposedly (it seemed anyway) that they fell apart due in large part to him being a raging drunk. Now he's sober, and they are like, living together, and what, nothing? That tension is part of what I watch the show for. I understand they only have an hour to fit everything in, but c'mon...

I had a feeling the whisper was about taking care of Clementine. I wasn't expecting them to blow that so out of proportion. There are so many other things to be focusing on.

The moment he whispered in her ear, I knew it was about Clementine. Jack was so upset because not only was she doing something for Sawyer, but she was being sneaky about it. And she shouldn't have told Jack. For all she knew, Sawyer could have been dead and it was something he asked of her in confidence so the rest of them could make it. She owed him. Also, remember that during this time Jack was starting to spiral out of control.

Very true.

I just thought they made more of a deal of it than it warranted.

I actually forgot all about Clementine before last night.

Anyhell...last night's epi left me wanting. Wanting what I am not sure, but nonetheless, I felt jipped.

I cried hard (without realizing it right off) when Kate was kissing Erin, but enjoyed that she stayed close to Clemetine, that made me smile.

Richard looked HAWT, but my heart belongs to Sawyer.

I always waffled between Jack and Sawyer but the recent episodes have cemented where my true loyalties lie. And I am SO not feeling Juliet and him. Enough already.

First, bitches.

Wait, we don't do that shit anymore, that's right

Trackbacks

  1. [...] Previously on Lost: Sayid shoots young Ben in the 70’s. Kate and Sawyer take Ben to Richard Alpert who says that if he helps Ben, Ben will always be one of them. Because Ben won’t give himself up, Whitmore’s mercenary kills Alex. Sun takes off with Lapidus to find Jin. Locke realizes Ben is back on the island too. [...]