BIOBaby: Breastfeeding in Public

I think nursing someone else's baby in the event of an emergency is fine. I guess in Salma's case, if she had the mother's permission and everyone felt comfortable, that's fine too.

People donate milk all the time. Do you think it's gross b/c it's someone else's milk or straight from Salma's breast?

Someone's milk. Breastfeeding seems so personal to me. To just give someone elses baby milk seems offensive. Isn't that called a wetnurse and it use to be done back in the day but it just seems so personal.

Yeah, wet nurses!

I've heard that some sisters nurse each other's babies too.

And I mean siblings, not sistahs! LOL.

i think i would be rather pissed if either one of my friends, sisters, or cousins attempted to nurse my child or offer thier breastmilk in a bottle.

I understand why Salma Hayek did it, but still there are to many health risks with doing that.

And in the same breath, having an opinion AGAINST breastfeeding is not amoral or illegal, so the women who do it should also deal.

(FYI to the nursing nazis, I am FOR BREASTFEEDING IN PUBLIC, however I believe covering up shouldn't be such a big deal. Neither I nor my children want your forced lesson in anatomy)

So basically we should stand across the room blowing raspberries at each other? Sounds productive, kind of like calling each other names..."nursing nazis"? Really? Really?!

Do you even read what you write before you hit enter?

I like you. You bring on the lols. We should hang out.

OMGosh, K!! I love you even more!! I've been calling them Lactation Nazis for 16 years! hahaha!!!! Horror story about what happened to one of my BFFs with her first child and the LNs.

Actually, breast milk is made of leukocytes (white blood cells) which is also what pus is made of. Snot consists of leukocytes as well. Urine is mostly water but contains many proteins and antibodies, the same as colostrum or breast milk.

So, to say snot and piss are not in the same category as breast milk is actually quite wrong.

And FYI, for many many years, ancient cultures drank their own urine because of the antibodies and proteins. Like breast milk, urine has many antibodies and proteins that are good to ingest. Some cultures still drink urine on a regular basis.

THATS WHAT I SAID! Im glad someone agrees

Ha! I love that about you, Nina! And yes, I do sort of know you by now, I think. (which is why I'd be protective and want you to have a set-aside space. I'm always protective of friends) I know how well you write, anyway!

"Just like I think the early matinees restricted to parents of young kids. It gives parents of young kids the opportunity to share the movie-going experience with their kids around tolerant and understanding people. It also saves them the worry that their children are annoying other movie goers."

And yes, exactly! That's my point! I'm all for a totally accommodating society. Anyone could buy that ticket, but they'd know what they were getting into!

Anyway, good discussion, mostly. And you know I only got into it because it was yours! I do -heart- your blog.

"I certainly don’t want to go to a restaurant and watch you spread your legs and shove an 8 pound baby out of your vagina while I eat my medium rare steak."

HAHAHAHAAA!!! I love you, Kemari!! :)

I think everyone being polite about it would be the best thing. Cover it up if you know people around you are going to be offended. Stop staring and pointing and chastising women who are nourishing their children. Just basic polite behavior.

"I am all for a woman breastfeeding in public if she needs to, as long as she is covered up."
So, who gets to define "covered up"? The mom? The owner of the establishment? The other people in the establishment? The police? I'll tell you who it will be - whomever it is that doesn't want a woman to breastfeed in public.

"However, she should be fully willing to accept the criticism and distasteful looks from those around her"
So even if I'm playing by your rules, you still get to shame me? That's... an interesting viewpoint.

"It should be up to each place of business to decide whether they allow and cater to such acts,"
Really? How about we take that a step further? Gay people are very offensive to some. Do places of business get to refuse them service? Lots of folks think fat people are gross. Should they be thrown out? That's a pretty slippery slope you're treading on.

"If people don’t like it, don’t look. You don’t smell it, or hear it, except for a small suckling noise that is barely audible (no worse than someone smacking their teeth while they eat)."
I completely agree with you, but it's so contrary to everything you've said to this point, that I find it hard to believe you mean it.

"On that note, I think that women should definitely have to be covered. In regards to the blog vomiter, covering up is respectful to other people."
Pretty sure I'm not the blog vomiter, but anyway... why is everyone so adamant that a breastfeeding mom be respectful of other people, and yet the same courtesy isn't afforded to her? You point blank said that *even if she is covered up*, she should just sit there and accept dirty looks, criticism, etc. How about we all just respect that a baby should be able to eat when he is hungry, in a way that is comfortable to him and his mother. The respectful thing to do would be to just let him eat in peace, and stop looking for something to be offended by.

I don't use a cover/blanket - gave that up when my firstborn was about a week old. I find them uncomfortable and awkward and feel like they draw way more attention to me than just latching the kid on and being done with it. I'm not trying to prove a point or put on a show - I'm feeding my child; meeting her needs. If someone is offended by that, it's because they've decided to be. As you pointed out, it really isn't that difficult to just stop looking.

"Yes, breastfeeding is natural. But so is childbirth and I certainly don’t want to go to a restaurant and watch you spread your legs and shove an 8 pound baby out of your vagina while I eat my medium rare steak."
Haha, a variation on the "pooping is natural, too" theme, but the same point applies - childbirth is potentially hazardous to others, which is why we typically don't do it in the middle of restaurants. Breastfeeding is not; it has no impact on anyone but the mother and baby.

All of this said, and as frustrated as these arguments make me, I do take comfort in the knowledge that the internet is a very skewed version of reality. I've been breastfeeding for a combined total of nearly 5 years (and counting), and have done so in all sorts of public places, with varying degrees of "coverage." In all of that time, I've only been confronted twice. Far more often, I get smiles and other positive feedback. Most of the time, though, the world goes on as if nothing unusual is happening at all, and to me, that speaks volumes.

First of all, I am FOR being able to breastfeed. What I'm not 'for' is women who do it thinking they have the right to look down on people who don't like it or disagree with it. You're an adult, you make the choice to whip out a tit and feed a kid, you have to deal with the consequences of other people. Me? I don't think it's gross and welcome women to do it, but it is an intimate act and should be treated as such, not as a circus show. People are naturally curious by nature, and also naturally opinionated, more often than not, they are opinionated very verbally and very rudely. In knowing that about people, a mother needs to be willing to accept the behavior and opinions of others if she CHOOSES to do such acts in public. People have the right NOT TO WANT a woman to breastfeed in public, whether its natural and beautiful or gross and annoying. Everyone has a right to like what they like, and just because you want to breastfeed in public, does not mean other people want you to.

So, who gets to define “covered up”? The mom? The owner of the establishment? The other people in the establishment? The police? I’ll tell you who it will be - whomever it is that doesn’t want a woman to breastfeed in public.

Why would there need to be a definition of covered up? Covered up is covered up. Meaning, don't let your nipple hang out with a baby attached to the end. Some things should be kept private. And if I OR SOMEONE ELSE doesn't want to see it, then we shouldn't have to. That is not discounting the fact that you shouldn't be allowed to do it, because you should. But do you need to do it 5 feet away from someone's 'dinner table'? NO. However, if you have to, if your kid is so direly hungry that you have to, by all means, please respect other people and cover your breast up.

“However, she should be fully willing to accept the criticism and distasteful looks from those around her”
So even if I’m playing by your rules, you still get to shame me? That’s… an interesting viewpoint.

Look, don't attack me or come at me with ignorance. How is it SHAMING YOU if you cover up? You are ashamed if you have a blanket over your breast? That's a ridiculous, idiotic thing to say. And what you mean by MY RULES I have no idea. You are apparently bitter about this and feel the need to attack anyone who disagrees with you. That kind of thinking is ignorant and hypocritical.

“It should be up to each place of business to decide whether they allow and cater to such acts,”
Really? How about we take that a step further? Gay people are very offensive to some. Do places of business get to refuse them service? Lots of folks think fat people are gross. Should they be thrown out? That’s a pretty slippery slope you’re treading on.

You are talking about an act of discrimination based on sexual orientation vs. indecent exposure by way of breastfeeding. How is that the same? Everything you just said is ridiculous and you should maybe read what you type before you hit enter. And yes, businesses SHOULD BE ALLOWED to decide whether they will allow breastfeeding on their premises. Until breastfeeding in public becomes a hate crime or disagreeing with public breastfeeding becomes an act of discrimination, businesses should have the right to choose. The fact that you brought up being gay or fat to make your breastfeeding argument solid is idiotic. How are they even similar?

“If people don’t like it, don’t look. You don’t smell it, or hear it, except for a small suckling noise that is barely audible (no worse than someone smacking their teeth while they eat).”
I completely agree with you, but it’s so contrary to everything you’ve said to this point, that I find it hard to believe you mean it.

Who the fuck cares if you think I mean it?

The rest of what you said read more like self-important feminist drivel than anything relevant or intelligent.

I breastfed in public twice, but I covered up and went somewhere comfortable and private so I could be with my babies alone, without the gawking stares of onlookers.

Women who breastfeed in public SHOULD WANT PRIVACY, because it is respectful to their babies to not be subjected to the ridicule and rudeness of those fools who act ignorant when something like that is going on. I personally think a mother should feel ashamed if she puts her child on display like that. Do I agree with people who gawk, make rude faces and comments? No, but it's a fact that there are going to be people who don't like it, so learn to deal with it or shut the fuck up and go home to feed your baby.

KeMari, where have you been all my life?? Well, actually, I totally recognize your name from "that other place", but never "met" you. Apparently, I've been missing out!

Perhaps your opinion matters on the Internet, but it doesn't matter at all where I live thankfully. The law protects my right to breastfeed my baby wherever I want and no one is allowed to ask me to stop, to move or to cover up. That said, I don't go around with my boobs hanging out, but if I wanted to, that would be my constitutional right.

"Constitutional"? Really? Doubtful. Lemme check my handy pocket-size U.S. Constition.

Nope.

Nothing in there about breast-feeding your child in public. Not a protected right under the Constitution.

But, if you're so worried about Constitutional rights for you, why aren't you also concerned with the Constitutional rights of parents who choose NOT to breast feed or who choose to raise their children in the way they see fit?

Ooooh, I love the smell of double-standards in the morning!

OMG...THANK YOU, KeMARI!!!! (Notice how I lowercased the "e"?) You rock.

Deb - I'm so sorry for your experience. I think it is awful that there are people that still think that way.

Thanks Annie.

"All because I was barraged with opinions like I’m seeing Kevin, Will (where the hell have you been hiding, Will?) and unbelievably even Tralfie."

Holy shit, you really do read what you want to read, don't you? I mean, seriously, my knowledge is that breastfeeding is awesome, because breastmilk is packed with nutrients unavailable anywhere else, but hey, when I'm out and about, I really don't need to see it. If I'm running errands and happen to get hungry, I'm usually not so malnourished I can't wait until I get home to eat; I don't see how it's any different for a two month old. My opinion on breastfeeding is that breastfeeding is the best option for at least the first year, but hey, I don't need to see it!

Will, who are you quoting?! I don't see that remark.

Never mind.

You're entitled to your opinion Will, of course. There are plenty of things I don't like seeing in public that are an awful lot less beneficial than breastfeeding. I think it is gross when women wear too much makeup. I think it is disgusting when men show their butt crack when bending over. I think it looks skanky when teenage girls have their thong sticking out of the back of their low rise jeans. But I just turn away when I see those things.

With regards to nourishment and need to eat, you cannot compare a 2 month old's needs with yours. A 2 month old has a much smaller stomach and needs to eat smaller meals more frequently. Also, you are mature enough to know not to scream at the top of your lungs when you are hungry (or at least I hope), but a 2 month old baby is not. And really, when presented with the option, most people would prefer to see a woman breastfeed than to listen to her baby scream.

Also, you can wait until you get home to eat. But do you always? Have you never eaten in a restaurant? Have you never picked up a snack anywhere? Why should you have that right and baby and his mother don't have the right?

Again, you're entitled to your opinion but it is an incredibly self-centered selfish view of the world.

It is different for a baby. They eat to grow. That's what it's called in the hospital. If they are on a schedule (even if bottle fed) their little stomach know's it. It's not like they have a stomach with decaying meat and other foods still in adults systems that their tiny bodies can go to if they get hungry. They need to eat. Any mother will tell you the child knows when to eat. Be it 3 hours or 4 hour timing, their stomachs empty and they need that nourishment.

Not to mention a breastfeeding mothers breast. So the mother decides the baby can wait because, hey, she might offend someone. So the baby crys, screams, and the mother's breast start to leak milk. Would you rather listen to a screaming child and look at a wet T-shirted Mom? Wet milk t-shirt?

Will, babies are different than adults. Look away. Seriously, the breastfeeding mother really doesn't want to be stared at.

"Will, babies are different than adults. Look away. Seriously, the breastfeeding mother really doesn’t want to be stared at."

How many times have I said I would avert my eyes?

Should I really have to do so?

"Yes, breastfeeding is natural. But so is childbirth and I certainly don’t want to go to a restaurant and watch you spread your legs and shove an 8 pound baby out of your vagina while I eat my medium rare steak."

=perfect.

Also, it's worth noting I would not avert my eyes because I think it's gross but rather because, honestly, I would consider it something intimate, between mother and child, of which I would not deserve to be a part. Honestly, if I were on a subway and an infant started fussing and the mother realized she needed to nurse, I'd stand in front of her, with my back turned, so she could do so with some privacy, because I'd think it deserved it.

And Annie? "self-centered"? "Selfish"? Is this the best way you know how to debate? Is this the highest level of reading comprehension you've got?

Oh, wait. You've got that "PhD" in parenting. It probably is, isn't it?

This blog is getting way awesome.

Now that I got that out of the way...

Will, when you mentioned that would would assist a nursing mother in attaining some privacy as she fed her baby it reminded me of a funny story.

My mom never breastfed her children. She was, and still is, convinced that it's barbaric and that formula is as good or better than breastmilk. When Milo was about 6 months old, we took him out for a day of errands. First, we went to a farmer's market. There was no private place to feed him and he was way fussy. I found a bench and sat with my back to the crowd and began feeding him. My mom was DISGUSTED. She grabbed a huge blanket from the stroller and draped it around us - like a huge shower curtain. Needless to say, she actually drew more attention to what I was doing. I kept telling her to stop it and put the blanket away. It was a sight.

Then, in IKEA, she tried to protect me from the pervy stares by standing in front of me like some mean old body guard. It was sweet that she wanted to protect me and I appreciated her efforts but I really think she was only creating more reasons for people to look my way. It was kind of embarrassing.

Most times, few people really notice what I'm doing. It generally just looks like I'm holding my child close. Now that he's older (15 mos), it might be a little more obvious. I plan to allow him to ween himself - even if it's when he's 3 years old. I'm sure people will get their panties in a wad about that. Especially my mom.

Will (hi, Will!!! Remember me???), I don't even know if you will come back to check this, but this is obviously a case of people not knowing how each other thinks, or better yet, how people write their thoughts out. I have read you numerous times back in that other place, so I get what you've been saying. From your first post, I got it.

Will is not anti-breastfeeding. He is not even anti-breastfeeding in public so much. He is of the belief that there are times and places for most things, and maybe while sitting through a movie or dinner he is none too keen on breastfeeding next to him. What's the big deal, really? Isn't he entitled to feel the way he feels as much as those of us who feel it's okay to do so?