BIOBaby: Breastfeeding Part 2
March 11, 2009 by nina
Filed under Blog It Out, Baby
Ah, so many things. I very rarely do this, but I thought I should post a follow-up to yesterday’s blog and address a few things. It’s going to take me a moment to respond to each of the comments like I want to, and there are some broad things I wanted to point out.
Most of you have been reading my blogs for over three years now. So, you’ve heard this before. I treat my blog like my living room. I speak here the way I speak to family and friends who come to my home. Those of you who have become “real life” friends from my blog, and been to my home, can attest to that. You are encouraged to speak your mind and engage in vigorous debate. I don’t delete comments of those that disagree with me, but I will delete comments that disrespect me. You can tell me I’m wrong, but you’re not gonna call me a stupid bitch while doing so. I wouldn’t tolerate that in my home, and I don’t tolerate it here. This also means that I defend your right not to be disrespected. Anyone who can’t make their point without being offensive will be deleted. Period.
After reading through most, but not all, of the comments on the breastfeeding in public blog, I wanted to say a few things…
1. Someone brought up a great point in that the act of breastfeeding should not be covered up. I want to be clear that wasn’t what I meant. You shouldn’t have to negotiate your child in such a way to hide what you’re doing because there is some stigma or shame to breastfeeding. I didn’t mean, and I don’t think some of the people responding, meant that you should breastfeed in such a way that no one can tell what you’re doing because breastfeeding is bad.
2. It seems to me that both sides had good points, but there are always going to be some who feel like their rights and opinions surpass the rights of others. So where do I stand? I see both sides. And I’m sorry if this doesn’t sit well with my fellow breastfeeding Moms. You have the right to breastfeed in public any way you want; completely covered with your child in a veritable sweat box, bare as you please with your breast exposed at all stages of the feeding process, or discretely behind a blanket/sling/shirt, etc. But you cannot deny someone the right to be uncomfortable, offended, and even grossed out.
I don’t think it’s gross, but I understand that not everyone shares my feelings. When we walk around thinking that everyone should feel the way we do, and then ridicule them when they don’t, we’ll all have problems.
I choose to “cover-up” when I nurse in public for several reasons:
1. I don’t want anyone looking at my breasts. Sorry. Call it what you want. People remarked, “If we lived in Europe…” Guess what? This ain’t Europe. I cover my breasts for the same reason I don’t put pictures of my daughter on the internet anymore. I cover my breasts for the same reason I don’t shove a full banana in my mouth, but rather break it into pieces when eating one in public. I cover my breasts for the same reason I bend at the knees and not the waist when picking something up in public. Why? People can be perverted. People have been known to take the most innocent of actions and get their rocks off from them. That’s why they’re called perverts.
2. I tend to wear shirts that open at the top. Even when I’m home and expecting family over. Why? Because I still have pregnancy tummy due to laziness at working out and I don’t want anyone looking at my baby fat. So, when we have family movie night, or a birthday party (as we’ve had several since Jack’s birth 7 months ago) at our house, I will nurse around family (too much of a social butterfly to leave the room and miss anything!), but I do so in a way that keeps my breasts covered.
Just as if we were in a restaurant, Donny will most likely hold a baby blanket up so that I can get my breast out and Jack latched on. Then I nurse with Jack covered. He is now at a stage where he will try to remove the blanket and unlatch to look around when he hears something interesting. I prepare for that by having myself in such a position, and around people, so that if it happens and my nipple is exposed, it’s not a big deal.
I’ve been at my parent’s house and in their kitchen when that has happened in front of my Dad. It’s not a big deal because even though I don’t go showing my Dad my nipples normally, we both realize that I’m feeding his grandchild and these things happen. Now, when I’m in the same situation with my cousin’s husband at the table, or my sister’s boyfriend, I will either nurse with my back to them so there’s no sudden nipple exposure, or I will leave the room.
This doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with breastfeeding or even my nipples. It just means that maybe I don’t feel like showing my nipple to my cousin’s husband, and maybe he don’t feel like seeing it.
3. As for children, for all the people who commented that breastfeeding provides a perfect learning opportunity, I agree. But it’s not your place to decide when others educate their children. I personally would handle my child asking about a nearby woman nursing as such, “She’s feeding her baby. Don’t stare because it’s not polite.” And if they had further questions, I’d address them at home. But again, everyone doesn’t think like me and you have to remember that not everyone thinks like you. And that doesn’t make them wrong.
Maybe little Billy just wants to eat his chicken fingers, and maybe his Momma just wants to let him enjoy his chicken fingers without having to get into discussions over your breasts and what they do and why they do it.
4. I am not nursing my son in a public bathroom.
5. I am not going to “wait till I get home” to nurse my son if he’s hungry. No, he won’t starve, but being hungry is no fun either. And anyone that suggests to me that I wait until I get home to feed him would most likely get their feelings hurt.
6. Comparisons to pooping and peeing are dumb. Stop making them.
Finally, everyone should be a little more tolerant. Period. Breastfeeding moms, we haven’t cornered the market on what’s right, what’s beautiful, and what’s acceptable. I think it’s very sad that some women have this “all or nothing” attitude about it. As a breastfeeding Mom I support your right to nurse wherever and however you want, but don’t make me feel like I’m betraying some sisterhood because I choose to practice some form of covering up when I do.
Nina is a 34-year-old mother, wife and writer who spends her days blogging, studying, changing diapers and watching ridiculous amounts of TV. She currently resides in Atlanta, Georgia, with her husband, two children and three TiVos.
I don’t want to be one of those persons that agree with you all the time, but damn! you summed everything up perfectly.
Gracias!!
like i said in your other blog I have always liked how you handle people who dont agree with you. One thing I like about this conversation is even your “fans” were willing to state their opinion even if it differed from you. What I dont understand is the “boys” like Brian, Kevin, Will and Bryce who seem to always go to cursing and insulting people..is it really necessary? Do they ( or you if you guys are reading this ) speak to people in person like that?
They may not want to see titties used for food but i dont like reading people being cursed at and called stupid…but I wont stop reading your blogs to avoid it
I like the way Nina not so subtly stated that she reserves the right to delete.
LOL I thought that also.
Ames… you are a twat.
AHHHHHHHHH, I can just FEEL that love!
Seriously. I write about it all in a general sense and she personally insults me two days in a row. She is a twat. And I hope nobody has to see her saggy titties.
do you talk to your mother with that mouth? I did not INSULT you, I asked very specific questions. Did I call you a name that wasnt the one you were given at birth? Seriously, what is your problem…web rage, you cant articulate your true feelings in public so you have to rant to strangers online? Ill just avoid reading anything you post from now on..its that easy
“Actually I think he is one of those people who hadnt their childhood so much they hate kids. It amazes me how grown men especially have a vile attitude toward children and mothers as if they were never kids themselves and their mothers didnt do for them what they hate seeing now…
or maybe thats the problem, Kevin’s mom gave him formula and now he hates the world”
Nope… not insulting at all.
Twat.
sorry if i hurt your feelings, it was an honest observation based on your commentary…but and still, didnt call you out your name. I have a weakness of verbally abusive men…wanna go out with me??
“I don’t think it’s gross, but I understand that not everyone shares my feelings. When we walk around thinking that everyone should feel the way we do, and then ridicule them when they don’t, we’ll all have problems.”
Exactly. For the record, I don’t think it’s gross either. But it’s not my place to tell someone else how they are “allowed” to feel about this, or anything else for that matter.
“This doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with breastfeeding or even my nipples. It just means that maybe I don’t feel like showing my nipple to my cousin’s husband, and maybe he don’t feel like seeing it.”
Exactly again
I really like 4-6.
I agree, people should be more tolerant. I don’t care if a woman chooses to cover herself up in a burka to breastfeed in public. I don’t like people telling me that I HAVE to cover in such a manner, though. To each her own.
It’s crazy how worked up people get about this.
I was so scared to breastfeed in public, at first, because people do have such a strong reaction to it. I wish people would just live and let live.
Carrie, I know better than to tell you that you HAVE to do anything! LOL
I know!
“Y’all don’t know me! Whatever, I’ll do what I want!” I love to say that in my best Cartman voice.
Amen!
I don’t agree with everything in your response, but I think it is really well written and you make a lot of great points.
The one thing that I will still stick on from yesterday’s conversation is the thought around whether it is okay to breastfeed around other people’s children. You said yesterday and again today that it should be up to the parents to decide when they are going to teach their kids what breasts are for and what breastfeeding is. I want to make a few follow-on points to that:
1) The problem is that many parents won’t. They gave formula. They will never talk to their kids about breasts or breastfeeding. Their kids first exposure to breasts will be when their buddy brings a dirty magazine to school or when they start popping out of their own chest. They will learn ONLY about the sexualization of breasts and will go on to be one of those people who think that breastfeeding is sexual or gross or something to be hidden.
2) My kids ask me a LOT of questions. They ask me why that person has a different skin colour from us. They ask me why that person drives a truck. They ask me why that bush has flowers and the other one doesn’t. They ask me why cows poo on the ground and we use a toilet. They ask me why? why? why? all the time. I think that is a good thing because it gives me the opportunity to be the one to provide an explanation to my kids or for us to explore the answer together. It is normal for kids to ask questions about things and I don’t think any kid would think there is anything weird about breastfeeding unless their parents give them a reason to think so. Just say “she is feeding her baby. Some babies drink from bottles and some babies drink from breasts”. Is it really that hard? (this last question is not aimed at you Nina, but at those that suggest that they don’t want their kids to see it).
Well done summing everything up!
I for one did discuss nursing to my then 5 year old because I had a baby and nursed her as well. He asked me about it and we discussed it and continued to discuss the subject well after I stopped nursing my daughter. My son too is very inquisitive and his dad and I answer his questions honestly and open as possible. His new thing now is mixed marriages. Me as a parent, I want my kids to learn from home, school and book…not the streets, not tv and certainly not their friends.
Annie, as much as you might want it to be, it is NOT your job to teach other peoples’ children about such things.
You teach your children what you want to as their parent and let other parents do whatever they believe is right for them as a family. Is it “right”? Maybe not, but it’s NOT abusive or hurtful to their children, so you need to let it go. You’ve moved on to the point of being a militant – what I call the Lactation Nazis. Just trust what you’re doing in your family is right for your family and Let It Go.
Amen Mary!! I was just thinking the same thing.
Anyone who uses the term “Nazi” to describe someone who is passionate about anything, but particularly breastfeeding, gets an automatic FAIL.
Anyone who gets offended by my obvious sarcasm needs to remove the stick from his/her ass.
Mary, I love you…that is all!!
*snort*
Mary, you are awesome.
AND, “being passionate” about something and “berating others and forcing your own agenda and belief system on others” are two different things.
Anyone that uses the term FAIL in public discussions, needs to grow up just a tad!
I concur!
Annie,
I happen to agree with you. I don’t think it so hard to simply explain to a curious child what breastfeeding is. But I respect a parent’s right to choose when and how. And though I don’t see the big deal, I can UNDERSTAND if there’s a moment of annoyance when confronted with that while out to dinner.
I didn’t comment on the other blog because the back and forth there had gotten ridiculous. You summed up everything I was thinking so well in this post!
I wish I had been able to breastfeed my boys. The nurses sabotaged me when the oldest was born and instantly gave him a bottle the first time he cried in the nursery. I was young and stupid then and didn’t have access to a lactation consultant so with him I missed out on Breastfeeding.
With my twins, they were born at 25 weeks gestation and were too tiny and weak to nurse. I DID pump breastmilk for 5 months for them though and bring it to the hospital every day for the nurses to tube feed them with.
Had I been able to breastfeed any of my kids I have no doubt I would have done it in public many times. I also would have done it covered. Not because I would have been ashamed of it or anything, but because I don’t want just anybody looking at my boobs.
I think it’s such a heated topic the whole breastfeeding issue. Everyone knows the saying you can’t please all the people all the time. That goes for this topic too. You did a great job here though of pleasing this reader..
Do you remember one of my early posts after Jack was born? To sum up:
When Jack was like two days old I recognized a difference in him. When one of the nurses came to check him she said she could hear his tummy grumbling and I had just fed him. She suggested supplementing with formula until my milk came in. When I got home, I realized that he was drinking more formula than breastmilk. I’d offer the breast first, he’d eat for a bit then let go, then I’d give him formula. And my milk hadn’t come in and didn’t feel like it was coming in. Remember Jack was born on a Monday and we got home Wednesday. That Friday I stopped w/ the formula and only gave him breast. He resisted at first cause he’d gotten used to the bottle. It was the most stressful two days, but I didn’t give up.
I would actually say to him,”I’m not giving up on you. Don’t give up on me.” I called Carrie (Scariella is Milo’s Mommy) and she suggested the old “bait and switch.” I would let him suck on pacifier, then snatch it out and stick my nipple in. It worked too! By Sunday he was taking the breast and latching on like a pro.
Then came the water retention and water in my lungs. I refused to take the medicine they gave cause there was the possibility it would dry up my milk and I was devastated. Again, Carrie proved to be a big help. Thankfully, I took the medication, my milk was fine, and Jack has been happily (and enthusiastically) nursing ever since.
I was honored to help out : )
It made me so upset that some nurse almost sabotaged your breastfeeding experience. I am so happy for you and proud of you and Jack!
When I was nursing my daughter I spent alot of time at my parents house with usually just my mom. I was not discreet and did not cover my baby for the simple fact that she is my mother, and not only does she have breasts, she gave birth to me and mine. My stepfather owns his own business and both of my brothers and various friends of theirs were employed through him, often times 5pm would hit and the place would be crawling with boys(men). If I happen to be nursing at that time I would cover up, not for me, but for them. A number of them felt uneasy seeing me bare my breast, no biggie to me, i didn’t hide her under some wool blanket, I had a cover designed for such moments. There would be times when I would fall asleep nursing her on my moms couch, in those times my mom would make sure to either wake me or cover me before the barrage of men came in.
A little off topic… while looking for nursing covers for my cousin I saw the cutest little things, they were wide brimmed bonnets that the baby could wear while nursing and it was large enough to cover the breast! How cute! http://www.moboleez.com/
Those bonnets are adorable!
I love them! I wish I could have another baby just so I could own one! Well, almost.
Jack would snatch that damn thing off his head so fast.
The only problem I have with women who cover up with a blanket or nursing cover is this: it makes everyone think that *I* should cover up that way, too. And maybe my baby refuses to be covered. Or maybe I don’t care if my boobs or stomach show. And in most of the 50 states, it is my legal right to nurse and show as much or as little as I care to.
We need to normalize breastfeeding to the point where the people who find it gross or are uncomfortable are a very small minority. When we nurse in public without wearing a silly paisley covered apron, we are helping to normalize breastfeeding for everyone. The more people see women nurse, the less strange it becomes. Obviously it is your right to cover up if you are modestor or for any reason you decide, but not covering does help the cause. I truly believe that. I think this is one of the reasons people say moms who don’t cover up are doing so for attention (which is ridiculous). I can’t live my life worrying about who is going to be offended by my every action.
So you are saying that b/c I choose to cover while nursing (whatver my reason may be) I’m making it harder for you b/c people will see me and say, “Okay, now that I can handle,” and then see you (uncovered) and say, “Can’t you cover yourself like that lady over there?”
So if I cover, I’m working “against the cause” and not helping to normalize nursing in public?
“I can’t live my life worrying about who is going to be offended by my every action.”
And neither can I and I have to say that I think it’s ridiculous that you’re partially blaming mothers who nurse while covered for perpetuating the idea that those who nurse uncovered are doing so just for attention.
I’m all for mothers nursing in public and doing so in whatever way they feel comfortable. I’m also for respecting the way other people choose to live their lives without blaming them for crap that’s been dumped on you.
Seeing mothers nurse in public, covered or uncovered, will help “the cause.” First breast milk vs. formula, then nursing in public vs. in a dirty bathroom stall, now it’s covered nursing moms vs. uncovered nursing moms. Seriously?
But Elita, with all due respect, who are you to decide what people can find gross? Again, I don’t find it gross, but I don’t control emotions. I don’t think anyone has the right to make you feel bad or uncomfortable if they don’t like it, but I don’t begrudge them their emotions.
Also, no offense, but my covering up… well, I don’t need the weight of some “cause” on my shoulders for my decision.
It seems there’s a whole lot of double standard here. Again, it shouldn’t be all or nothing.
Just jumping in here…
Elita, you and I are both advocates for the cause. I BF openly. It’s my choice. I do so because it’s the easiest for me and baby PLUS I want to normalize public BFing.
However…
Just as I don’t want someone telling me to cover it up OR that I am a bad person in some way for not covering up, I think we should just praise any mom that BF’s in public: covered or not.
We’re all on the same team, ladies. Let’s take a moment and support one another a little. While I do feel that some people think that since some women choose to cover that covering up should be easy and mandatory for all nursing moms, I think getting defensive and/or attacking the moms that cover out of modesty does more harm to the cause than good.
The best way to advocate for public nursing without covering is to do it, smile, encourage others, explain your reasons, and offer support. Getting defensive or frustrated with moms that cover just makes us look militant and intolerant. It alienates others.
Hey Carrie,
Do you consider mothers who cover advocates as well? Do you think that nursing in public and being covered also normalizes nursing in public?
Hey Sophie!
I do – as long as they don’t tell me to cover up : )
Carrie – I agree with you completely.
I have five kids, I’ve nursed everywhere, and I don’t use a cover simply because I find them uncomfortable and awkward and feel like they just draw more attention to me than just getting the baby latched quickly and being done with it. I nearly always wear a camisole under my shirt, and do the whole lift outer shirt/lower undershirt thing, because I’m far more concerned about anyone seeing my belly than I am my boob! However, just because *I’m* comfortable that way doesn’t mean that every other nursing mother will be or should be.
I have always been bothered by people who say that nursing covers hurt “the cause.” What about those women who aren’t mothers yet, but are mortified at the thought of breastfeeding in public, and are considering not breastfeeding at all because of it? There’s a chance that if they see someone with a cover, they might think, “hey – I could do that.” That’s a GOOD thing!
Of course, I’m equally bothered by people who think that those of us who don’t use some sort of cover are out to make a statement. Um, no. My primary concern is feeding my kid, and I would say that’s true of 99.9% of the moms who breastfeed in public, no matter how they go about it. If my breastfeeding in public helps normalize it – hey! bonus!
Thank you, Anna. Thank you.
I think it would be difficult (and wrong) to legislate something just to change people’s opinions of it. I think moms should have the legal right to breastfeed in any manner they chose…it’s not going to change my opnion upon seeing it.
Nina, I don’t know if you saw my response to Kemari’s post in the first blog, but I think everyone just being polite would be helpful.
You know I think it’s silly because “they’re just tits”, but I would NOT purposely go out of my way to make my tits visible when I know that just concealing them so as not to offend others would make some people more comfortable. It seems that a lot of those people are trying to make a political statement at the same time they’re nursing their kids. Just feed your child and stop using him/her to further your agenda.
Damn.
Nicely summed up, Nina. I’ll not comment further, because some people seem to want to read into comments thoughts that just aren’t there (and, for the most part, turns out they’re able to). But you bring up a lot of great points, and I pretty much mostly agree with you.
LOL…I read all the comments from yesterday’s blog. I REALLY didn’t know that this was such a hot topic! lol
Me neither!
Some people done lost their damn minds….lol I just felt like saying that
It’s great when people can get their points and opinions across without offending anyone, which is a hard task to accomplish considering everyone gets all butt hurt over the slightest of disagreements. Is it that hard to come to terms that the entire known universe does not agree with you? (not you, but you in general).
I like how you’ve respected everyones opinions and did’t start berating people if they don’t agree with what you had to say.
Butt hurt is a phrase that I’ve heard a lot, but never used. I’m going to start using it.
absolutely one of my most favorite phrases EVER!
This is a term I use often but my favorite would have to be
“Please remove the sand from your vagina…..sir”
You have handled this with superb dignity and a dash of kick-ass Nina.
Everything that needs to be said has been said. I think the tolerance for both sides is the most important point – and to echo Mary above with the ‘nazi’ term, when I was in the hospital with Sol, the ‘nursing nazis’ (as my ENTIRE family called them) had me in tears over breastfeeding.
I had been absolutely pro-breastfeeding until they swooped down on me and began bullying me about it – it was absolutely outrageous and nearly made me give up. I was a new mom with a tiny baby, recovering from a c-section, totally hormonal and these women were so full of their own agenda that it still outrages me thinking about it. Thankfully one of the sane nurses and my doctor stepped in and told them that they were to STAY. OUT. OF. MY. ROOM. And if they came back they would have my doctor to deal with.
After they were out of my face, Sol and I learned how to nurse together just fine – and without me in tears.
It would be nice if we all “got it” on our first attempt and breastfeeding began without frustration, but that is not always the case. Every effort should be made to make the experience as stress-free as possible. Sucks that happened to you.
P.S. Hi, Alegra!!
Hi there!
)
Yes, and the thing is, Sol and I were doing just fine until they came along. Sol was full-term but only 5 pound 7 ounce, so just on the border of low birth weight. The two of us were finding our way with my porn-star sized breasts (they were like twice the size of his poor little head) until these nurses came in and started taping little tubes onto my breast to insert into his mouth, squeezing my breast, forcing me to go onto a pump machine – it was all totally unnecessary.
Sol was getting enough food, the other non-agenda nurse and my doctor and pediatrician had no concerns – the lactating nurses were just so hell-bent on pushing their issues on me and anyone else who passed through the hospital (I have spoken with other women who had the same experience. One, in fact, was told ‘to rob a bank if she had to because not staying home with her child to breastfeed was a far bigger crime’).
I don’t do well with being bossed around and if I had not been a first time mom recovering from a hellish labor and emergency c-section there would have been words flying from me.
Again, I respect what you have done with this topic.
I hate it when I turn into an echo “absolutely-absolutely”. First thing in the morning blog commentingitis
I dont think I ever been this involved in your comments and blogs besides reading and dropping “lmfao” as a comment, but it was so interesting how passionate people were about their opinions and it just bothered me seeing that it was mostly the guys who had an negative issue with the BF thing. It made me wonder what if it were their child that the women is trying to simply feed, what then?
=) Nice summing up Nina! Have a good one!
I think the guys had the most negative reactions but the BFing moms seemed to be the most venomous. It was like a good old after school girl fight. We could all gather around in a circle and watch the fight until a titty pops out.
LOL!!!!!
OMGosh. Nina, your dad ROCKS.
*still laughing!*
DO NOT encourage him!
I do remember that EVERY fight in school ended with an earring flying, a weave getting trashed, and a titty exposed.
OMG…Airwolf is your dad???? I effin’ love it! He’s awesome. Even more so now that I’ve read his own words. I mean, your words over the years (via blogs) made me love him, but it’s totally different now that I’ve read his own thoughts.
LMAO omg thats 2 funny. What makes it funnier is that I just came bk inside after watching some 2 girls have it out a block away from my house. Her wig came off tho…. no titties =( lol
Ok, just to follow up…I don’t think comparisons to pooping and peeing are dumb. They are perfectly legitimate. Just like breastfeeding it’s natural and it’s something that pretty much has to be done with some urgency. I wish you would have followed that up with why you think the comparison is dumb instead of dismissing it so easily. I’m personaly disgusted either way. In fact, I would probably be amused watching a person pee in public versus breast feeding, which would just make me shudder. My opinion.
How do you think shit and sustenance for a child is even remotely the same?
I didn’t say they were the same…I said they were both bodily functions. Obviously there is a difference between poop, pee, and breast milk. But the ACT OF shitting, peeing, and breastfeeding are things that some would find equally offensive.
I still don’t get it. Why would seeing a baby drinking breastmilk be “disgusting” to you? What exactly about the act is “disgusting?” Is it seeing a nipple? What if the mother is covered? Is it just the fact that she’s in public doing it and not hidden in some dark cave? Why would you rather see someone pee in the street than see a child nurse?
Okay, we’ve established that we have the right to feed our children and you have the right to be grossed out or disgusted or what have you. What we still haven’t gotten down to is what exactly makes it disgusting. I totally get that it might make someone feel uncomfortable, but unless my breastmilk squirts and lands on your face or in your coffee, how is it “disgusting?”
I guess it’s because I do see my breasts as purely sexual. Maybe something happens to your hormones that changes that point of view when you get pregnant, but right now the idea of someone’s mouth on them for anything other than a sexual nature is QUITE disturbing to me…especially when that someone is in the form of a child. I won’t expound on that but you can guess where it leads my (MY) mind…and it all boils down to: disgust.
And please don’t any other readers start chiming in on me calling all breastfeeding moms pedophiles.
And I think that’s dumb. I don’t begrudge you the right to a dumb opinion, but I can think it’s dumb.
In response to Adrienne above:
And I don’t mean this to be insulting, but that speaks to your experiences. When I was a kid I watched my mother nurse my siblings and I’d seen other family members nurse as well.
When I became sexually active, of course I realized that they served a sexual purpose, but it just seemed common sense to me that when I had children they’d serve a different purpose and I never once thought of connecting the two or worried that they would be.
When you’re lactating, your concern is feeding your child the best possible nourishment available. You’re not thinking about sex.
This comment is for Nina, but stems from Adrienne’s comment:
Okay, Nina…you and I have been down the kids and no kids path before on Frogger’s blog, so you know that I am pretty much lost when it comes to topics such as this, having never had such experiences. But I would hope that you also know that I am always looking to learn from others because some crazy crap could go down where I actually do have a child someday and want the best possible advice on parenting. That said, how the EFF (yeah, I capitalized my attempt at not cursing!) any childless woman can equate breastfeeding in that manner is totally and completely beyond my comprehension. Yeah, she did ask that we not comment on it, but I can’t help it. With every ounce of my being I feel the need to state that WE DON’T ALL FEEL THAT WAY! Please delete this if you feel it’s inappropriate…I really only wanted you to know that it’s not the norm.
Because one is breast milk created in your body to provide sustenance for a child, and the other is fecal matter that causes contamination and disease. And any attempt to compare the two seem dumb to me.
Again, you can find breastfeeding gross and disgusting (I vehemently disagree), and I defend your right to do so. But I just think those are one of those stupid, low-blow comparisons used when logical reasoning fails.
Also, it seems to me, it’s designed to be insulting and I don’t play that shit.
I certainly don’t mean it to be insulting, though I could see how a breastfeeding mom could think so. My only point is that I personally find them all equally disturbing to watch. I think mothers have to allow for that…whether or not they care enough to do anything about it is their choice.
Exactly! Whether I agree or not. Think it’s dumb or not. I don’t say you can’t think it or feel it. And I also don’t think Moms who breastfeed in public should expect people to just suck it up. We all have to allow for other people’s feelings. ESPECIALLY when we disagree with them. I also think it’s dumb to expect people to not have a reaction if you take your breast out in the restaurant to feed a child. Not everyone will react the same, and some reactions may not be ones you want.
I absolutely agree that people are allowed to feel whatever they feel when they happen upon a woman nursing in public. But, I kinda do think they have to suck it up. Rolling eyes, dirty looks – ok. Annoying, but not really a problem as hey – we’ve all done it when we see something that we find disgusting/offensive/whatever. It’s when people think that by feeding her baby in their vicinity, a woman has invited their commentary – that, I have a problem with. Especially because they typically expect the woman to just take it! Sorry, but if I walk up to someone and say, “Hey, your asscrack is showing… would you cover that thing up?”, well, they might comply, but more likely they’d tell me to mind my own business. Why shouldn’t nursing mothers be afforded the same freedom?
We all see things a dozen times a day that we would rather not see. Do we confront every one of them? No – we look away and go on about our business. No matter how disgusting someone may think breastfeeding in public is, I will never understand why they can’t just leave the woman and her child in peace and go on about their merry way.
@ Adrienne re: sexualized breasts: if that’s so, why aren’t penis and vagina and anus relegated to the acts of elimination then? Some people aren’t into anal sex, fine, but how can a vagina or penis be dual-purpose but not breasts?
On a related note, however, one mom I know–who was no longer with the baby’s father–tried breastfeeding her son and stopped said something about it seeming sexual to her; she said her son reminded her too much of the father, which was why she switched over to the bottle.
Now that’s a little weird, I think.
Pop, I agree. I’m so not even thinking about sex when I’m nursing.
All the comments on today’s and yesterday’s blogs and I am the one who needs to “get a life”?
I said, “what’s the big deal?” and “be polite”. Those were my themes regarding breast-feeding in public.
Clearly, there are others who are far more in need of “lives” than I.
*shakes head*
I’m just stopping by to say hello. So…. HELLO NINA!!
Hey, girl!!!
I’m with Allegra, Mary and …you, Nina.
I chose not to breastfeed in public areas simply because it made me uncomfortbable. On the rare occasions that I needed to feed Blake in public, I had no problem covering my breasts because I didn’t want to make anyone else feel uncomforable, but also because I didn’t need some perverted man gawking wishing I was nursing him instead. That kind of thought gives me the heebie-jibbies.
I have seen women in public nursing totally open and baring it all in a very public place, and I didn’t really appreciate seeing it. I thought it lacked class, tis was opinion. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being a lady, and yes I find discretely covering your naked tits ladylike. I felt this way long before I even had a child, but now that I have, I feel the same even after I’ve nursed him myself for a year.
I have an aversion to the mothers that refuse to even try to nurse their children because they feel “weird” about it, simply because I find it immature and selfish. On the flip side, I don’t think that anyone should be bullied into doing something that they don’t wish to do for thier own reasons, and as was mentioned above, some women simply aren’t able to nurse, even though they’d like to. I cannot tell you how many women would comment in a grocery store, or look at my belly and say things like, “You are going to breastfeed, aren’t you?” like it was any of their fucking business. I always wanted to, but I think people need to spend a bit more time minding their own shit.
Ha! I love it. Like I always say to my son, “You need to go mind your own toybox, stop worrying about everyone else!”
Same rule applies to adults. Largely, unless someone asks us for an opinion on something they really aren’t interested in having us tell them how to run our lives. The exception to this are those that we are very close with – sometimes part of intimacy is stepping in and voicing things that may not be welcomed but are important, out of love. This does not apply to the general public. People going on a mission to ‘convert’ others through guilt tactics, pressure, etc. are no different than those that tell people if they don’t find god they are going to hell. It usually achieves the opposite result – you know what I am saying.
I am preaching to the choir here ;o)
Sing it sister
Hey Nina! You KNOW I’ve been here, reading both blogs, but initially wasn’t going to comment because I don’t have kids and never really thought much about breastfeeding. With that being said, I agree that breastfeeding is best for a child and I totally agree with feeding your child any damn where you need to. It doesn’t gross me out, and I don’t find it offensive or disrespectful. I don’t care if you cover up or not because I’m not going to be all up in your tits trying to see. Yes, it may catch my attention if I happen to glance your way, but I will just as easily glance away, realizing that it’s a private moment between you and your baby. Now, I HAVE seen some women get tacky with it, but that’s not the norm. I mean damn, I could see the outrage if you were sitting in the trunk of the car or bed of a truck, tits out, uncovered, feeding the baby and listening to 2PAC while Donny is driving down the street. THAT might be drawing unnecessary attention to yourself.
P.S.
I love your dad and Sophie. That is all. Oh wait….and KeMari.
Saved the best for last.
“I mean damn, I could see the outrage if you were sitting in the trunk of the car or bed of a truck, tits out, uncovered, feeding the baby and listening to 2PAC while Donny is driving down the street. THAT might be drawing unnecessary attention to yourself.”
*dies*
Oh I so needed that laugh. Thank you!
I laughed so hard at todays comments. Everyone seems so sore. I laughed hard at Ames comments to Kevin. “Kevin’s mom gave him formula and now he hates the world”. funny. Take a joke Kev. lol
Also “The Nazi comment” super funny. Remember soup nazi. Hilarious.
Some women need to cover up their breast are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too big to be let out in public. lol (sorry) Tell me you’ve never seen em.
Hey Lisa!!!
My baby Tara. Hey
I never got very comfortable breast feeding in public but when I did I didn’t “cover” because well I’m clumsy as hell as it is and juggling a baby and a blanket was like waving a big flag that said “hey everyone look I’m attempting to breast feed.” I used a sling at times and nursing shirts and faced away from the crowd and people rarely appeared to notice. Besides it kept her very quiet and happy and people didn’t have to deal with my screaming kid.
Yes some guys are overly fascinated by a breast feeding woman. Some guys are even more obsessed with women’s toes. I don’t plan to quit wearing sandals in public either. Of course it’s a moot point as I don’t plan to have anymore kids either.
I think you’ve handled the debate as sanely as I’ve seen anywhere, Nina.
I know I’m late commenting (REALLY late) but I’ve only recently discovered this blog.
I really liked what onedeepblue has to say about it:
“Yes some guys are overly fascinated by a breast feeding woman. Some guys are even more obsessed with women’s toes. I don’t plan to quit wearing sandals in public either.”
I have been trying to figure out a way to say what I wanted to say about the issue and this is it.
Personally, I don’t particularly cover in public, but I am also able to breastfeed in public discreetly. Unless you are really trying to see what I am doing it’s going to look like I am just holding my baby.
Personally I don’t see what the big deal is.
I honestly agree with you Nina.
What it boils down to is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If someone has a different belief than me, in regards to just about anything, I don’t automatically think that they are wrong because their opinion differs from mine. I can see why this would be a touchy subject for some people, but seriously, trying to force someone to agree with you is just ridiculous.
Personally, I do not have a problem with breastfeeding in public, with the child covered or not. When my older daughter was an infant I breastfed her, and I chose to do so in a secluded area. Partially because if there were any distractions she would lose all interest in feeding (no matter how hungry she was) but also because I knew that if I bared my breasts that it might make others uncomfortable. Just because I CHOSE to breastfeed my daughter didn’t mean I had the right to FORCE others to like it.
Now, if someone had come up to me to say something negative you can bet I would put them right in their place.
One other thing I noticed in this and the other blog was some people saying that it was their “constitutional right” and that there are laws allowing them to breastfeed, covered or not, in public. I think that is kinda bullshit to say. It is my constitutional right to stuff my fat ass in a pair of hoochie mama shorts and a tube top and strut my stuff in public, that doesnt make it RIGHT for me to do so.
Also, as far as some women feeling that by other peoples children seeing a stranger breastfeed her baby that they are “teaching” them. Newsflash, it is not up to a stranger to teach another persons child anything. It is up to the parents of that child…and guess what, maybe they will choose not to teach their child about the benefits of breastfeeding, maybe they won’t tell them that it is completely natural, but when push comes to shove it is that parents RIGHT to do what they feel is best for their child. I don’t know where anyone gets off thinking that they have any business getting into someone elses childrearing.
Lastly, I don’t think that a woman should have to shut herself in some nasty bathroom to feed her child. I also don’t think a parent should have to force her infant to wait till they get home to eat. However, these are my opinions and I am not going to sit here and try to make anyone feel the way that I do.
Well put, Nina. I started reading the comments on the other blog but felt overwhelmed by them.
I mentioned how surprised I was by the outcry to Sam, and he said that men who are disgusted by breastfeeding are disturbed because they want to think of breasts as sexual objects only. It was interesting to me to see that Adrienne’s reasoning was along the same lines.